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___________________________________________________ --- Gary Gene Ford <ggford@shaw.ca> wrote ...
Prescott Sheldon Bush <*************@thefirsttwins.com>, "Peter D. Ward" <****@ess.washington.edu>, Daniel Bowen <************@gmail.com>, Jentje Goslinga <***********@shaw.ca>, Stanton Friedman <******@rogers.com>, bruce maccabee <******@compuserve.com>, Stephen Goodfellow <*******@goodfelloweb.com>, Allan Safarik <*****@sasktel.net>, Jess Walls <*****@suddenlink.net>, Joe <********@hispeed.ch>, brad smith <*****@thule.org>, "Greg Lunt J.D." <********@yahoo.com>, Ken Deibert <*****@cal.net>, ********@yahoo.com.ar, Dick Farley <**********@aol.com>, Frank Ford <************@yahoo.com>, Mark Thornally <**********@yahoo.com>, Hsing LEE <*******@shaw.ca>, Bill Gallagher <*********@gmail.com>, Norman Bowden <************@msn.com>, Ed Yco <*****@earthlink.net>, lensman <*******@sbcglobal.net> Thanks for the Interesting INFO, Prescott, Old Boy! The Good Fog Presser looks to be an interesting Scientist - I just hope he's not contracted an incurable case of Green Hound Disease (better than Living Slug Disease, tho')! Daniel, I am doubtful of Net Energy from relieving H2S of its Sulfur, given the Capital Expenses and Operational Control and Safety Bound Energy Consumptions, as in removal of H2S from Sour Gas, as H2S IS - after all, - TRULY One Dangerous Dandy GAS to deal with, with chronic exposures to sub-lethal concentrations suspected of having a cumulative neurological deficit damage potential over 1-5 ppm. Aside: Norman, is the NSA REALLY analyzing all these rollicking exchanges? "The REAL WORLD is Far More COMPLEX Than THEY (want YOU to) Believe" - GGFord By the way, I meant to imply, but didn't exactly say below, that Winds arising to convect Heat from the Tropics to Higher Latitudes, and, as well, Wind-Whipped/Sun-Warmed Waters which may experience Surface Salinity increase due to evaporation of H2O - NOT SALT - should act as Drives for Ocean Currents, as where Ocean Water is taken away, and/or some remaining water changes buoyancy from salinity change, there are Drives to move water, such as with surface or deep water flowing in, replacing removed surface water, leading to currents. Add in Solar/Lunar Tide effects on various Deep and Shallow Oceanic Flow Barriers, and additional drive for Currents is established. Serious Reduction of Ocean Currents almost DEMANDS a serious reduction of volume of Oceanic Water. Now, How DOES Wind cause Motion of Ocean Water?! One way is by moving water aside - new water generally then flowing in from somewhere, often from below, when sufficient depth allows, as in Fish/Seabird/Guano friendly Deep Oceanic Up Welling, offshore, Chile, where Winds from Offshore can also create a Northward Current along the West Coast of South America. HOW Can Water be "moved aside" by Wind?! ... By SURFACE FRICTION on the Water Underlying the Wind. aided by, as well as further causing, presence of waves as obstacles to surface winds, even interaction on the Wrinkly Capillary-Dominated, small wavelength, surface feature wavelets upon Bulk Gravity Waves, agents of Wind/Ocean Surface friction. Solar Heat and Wind Driven, Evaporation Fluid Volume/Density Changes, with Heat and Air Density Variations Driven Winds acting on Ocean Surfaces through Air/Water Friction, along with Lunar/Solar Ocean Tides interacting with solid obstacles to flow, stirring in some Coriolis Effects for BOTH Wind and Water flows, SHOULD, in my opinion, produce Ocean Currents. I simply find the "Stagnant Ocean" idea likely a gross exaggeration. But - OKAY! - Currents may be caused to CHANGE. Is it then Global Ocean Currents STILLING?! - or - Instead, some "Global Ocean Currents CHANGE!"? Gary, 4 THE SWIMP - Iowan Idiot/Mighty Maniac/COSMOS CHILD Gary Gene Ford - swimp@shaw.ca ggford@shaw.ca http://pweb.netcom.com/~mthorn/magiboom.htm http://pw1.netcom.com/~mthorn/divinepr.htm Prescott Sheldon Bush wrote: Peter Douglas Ward, Ph.D., is a paleontologist and professor http://www.pbs.org/kcet/shapeoflife/explorations/bio_ward.html of Geological Sciences at the University of Washington in Seattle. He is currently examining the nature of the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event with studies in France and Spain involving detailed field work which concentrates on ammonites and bivalves. Ward is also researching speciation patterns and ecology of the living cephalopods Nautilus and Sepia. A final field of research is examining the stratigraphic history of West Coast Cretaceous basins through detailed biostratigraphy and basin analysis. http://www.ess.washington.edu/People/faculty_bio/ward-bio.html "More than 200 million years ago, a cataclysmic event known as the Permian extinction destroyed more than 90 percent of all species and nearly 97 percent of all living things. Its origins have long been a puzzle for paleontologists. During the 1990s and the early part of this century, a great battle was fought between those who thought that death had come from above and those who thought something more complicated was at work. Paleontologist Peter. D. Ward, fresh from helping prove that an asteroid had killed the dinosaurs, turned to the Permian problem, and he has come to a stunning conclusion. In his investigations of the fates of several groups of mollusks during that extinction and others, he discovered that the near-total devastation at the end of the Permian period was caused by rising levels of carbon dioxide leading to climate change. But it's not the heat (nor the humidity) that's directly responsible for the extinctions, and the story of the discovery of what is responsible makes for a fascinating, globe-spanning adventure. In Under a Green Sky, Ward explains how the Permian extinction as well as four others happened, and describes the freakish oceans--belching poisonous gas--and sky--slightly green and always hazy--that would have attended them. Those ancient upheavals demonstrate that the threat of climate change cannot be ignored, lest the world's life today--ourselves included--face the same dire fate that has overwhelmed our planet several times before." www.amazon.com/Under-Green-Sky-Warming-Extinctions/dp/006113791X --- brad smith the guys that are into "saving" lives are losers. we need depopulation. http://www.thule.org/plan.html "Gary Gene Ford" "HOLY FOG PRESSER!" ... Daniel, you're ON A Rockin', BOILING ROLL! Things to consider about the Permian Catastrophe and claims of NO OCEAN CURRENTS while blaming 'Natural' CO2 for the Action: (1) The Ocean Floors of the Earth are about 180 Million Years or less old, much brand new, most in between. Sea Floor from the Permian, is NOT preserved in the Ocean today but exists, often contorted, even metamorphic, scattered throughout locations on the Continents, where saved by uplift from Oceanic Trench Subduction. Here and there, Mountains have Exposed it; but since almost All Deep Drilling is for Oil and Gas, and as Most OIL and Gas wells are drilled with detailed analysis to depths shallower than the Permian, evidence of what the Sea Flows (seen from flow action on the Sea Floors of the Day) were doing during the Permian Catastrophe, may be somewhat sparse, even very incompletely preserved, even largely unknown, I would wager, in terms of thorough World Sample. SO HOW DO WE KNOW? ... Maybe Some OCEAN Currents STOPPED, as for instance Tectonic Plate movements closed parts of their courses into shielded bays or otherwise trapped off, such as by Oceanic Volcanic Ridges?! But SURELY, with a Moon CLOSER (Geophysicists assure us), and with a Shorter Month, Permian Ocean Tides were likely stronger than ours now, and may have induced SOME Considerable Ocean Flow/MIXING, especially in areas where tides butted up against Continental Margin Barriers? .. Additionally, the configuration of Continents was Different during the Permian Catastrophe than it is now, TODAY! WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE? = that THE OCEANS WERE ALL SO STAGNANT back than, stinking of Hydro-Sulfides ... like a Rotting Marsh?! . (2) Yes, the Volcanoes of the Earth, as the FOG PRESSER Allows, were indeed mighty spewers of CO2, from time to time. Two or Three Decades Ago, there was a Scientific American Article by a French Geophysicist discussing precisely the large Out-gassing of CO2 by Volcanism, suggesting it was getting Time for ANOTHER Outburst, as some slow moving, huge bubble of magma may be working its way toward the crust, ready to burst forward with Heat and CO2. I remember that the Frenchman ALSO claimed CO2 at the K-T (Cretaceous-Tertiary) Boundary appears to have been EIGHT TIMES (8x) as Great as it is 'Now' (2 or 3 decades ago), which would still have been several times as large as the 1000 ppm which the Goad Fog Presser bandies about ... IF SO, why didn't the Oceans STAGNATE at K-T Time? OR MAYBE THEY DID?! ... To WHAT Degree?! We need Impartial and Well Informed (rather than decorated, dogturnated, 'well programmed'. crapademics in 'doctrinal sync' with current CO2-Hate-Mongers) Geophysicists and Geologists to give us more information, I think. (3) In early several years of this decade, NASA published maps of Carbon MON-Oxide "Rivers" flowing from Seasonal S.E. Asian Forest Burnings. The Flow roughly went over Hawaii, where the ONE Authoritative, Dogmatically Correct for the Whole Earth, CO2-Measuring Station resides on a dormant volcanic Peak on "The BIG Island" (along with some Astronomical Observatories, I seem to remember ...). If CO1 fails to mix over those thousands of miles, why would CO2 be THAT much different? Neither CO1 nor CO2 are experiencing pure substance phase changes over such a trip., but I will allow that CO2 is quite water soluble and can be "brought down" to the Surface of Land/Ocean with Cold Rain. HOW can we be sure that the steady rise of CO2 - "as measured" (In Hawaii!) - has not been reflecting an increase of Forest Burning in S.E. Asia?! Or Coal Burning in India and South China?! And BY THE WAY, shouldn't there be a Seasonal Variation of CO2's portion of our Atmosphere due to Photosynthetic Plant Growth Cycles? Makes me want to say ... "Who Writes WRONG on The Who The What The WHY?! WAIT O THING I I I I I I ... " - as Jack Kerouac wrote in his book "Desolation Angles" after his trap killed a Rat at his Summer Employment Fire Look-Out Station near Skagit Lake, Washington, just South of Canada's Border, where he could look North each Night to see "Mount Hozomeen, most beautiful mountain, I ever seen!" "The REAL WORLD is Far More COMPLEX Than They (want YOU to) Believe!: - GGFord Gary, smelling a Funds/Brown Shirt Political Power Play/and a Global Grabademic/World-Wide Technocratic, "We're BETTER than THEM [the UN-Dogturnated, OF COURSE!} ..." 'Coups d'Etats' Conspiracy-by-Similar-Interests, RAT ATTACK in Progress, just as usual. Gary Gene Ford - swimp@shaw.ca ggford@shaw.ca http://pweb.netcom.com/~mthorn/magiboom.htm http://pw1.netcom.com/~mthorn/divinepr.htm Daniel Bowen wrote: Gary, What I found particularly 'precious' about this theory is that it threatens the most dire consequences (EVERYBODY WILL DIE!) but all hangs upon the runaway operation of a routine natural process .......... over the course of thousands of years, and AFTER a SEPARATE and catastrophic event; the stoppage of ocean currents, which has not happened, and shows no actual signs of happening. If anyone has a better recent example of an unprovable piece of alarmism (at least on such a scale), I should be amused to see it. Another interesting point about this theory from a scientific point of view is that it is yet another climate theory that is completely and utterly reliant on the operation of the water cycle, but only potentially reliant on CO2 levels. Indeed it is completely and universally accepted that the vast majority of any global warming that takes place,or will take place, will be caused by a change in the water cycle, with water vapor rather than CO2 trapping the vast majority of atmospheric heat. CO2 can only be considered a global warming threat if it in fact triggers changes in the water cycle through its small warming effect. I suspect that in both the H2S and the global warming scenarios CO2 rather than water vapor is implicated as the CAUSE of water vapor changes rather than the effect of them, mainly because CO2 levels may be measured and compared at different times, with the presumption that CO2 levels do not vary in the atmosphere much, while it is obvious that water vapor levels do vary greatly from place to place due to the fact that water undergoes the full range of phase changes at Earth temperatures. There are in fact many cases in the fossil record that would point to CO2 levels FOLLOWING rather than PRECEDING global warming, but to acknowledge the significance of this would be to deprive many chemically and mathematically oriented scientists of the means to proclaim a precise history or future of climate. A social history of the world and the long-standing and common use of fortunetelling shows us that experts in society generally would prefer to paw through the entrails of a sheep or engage in a multitude of similarly inconvenient acts rather than acknowledge that they do not in fact, have precise information about the future. Anyway, while this course of action would of necessity take place far into the future, it is worth noting that even if Peter Ward is right, the stoppage of oceanic circulation and the build up of gasses in the deep ocean from anaerobic decomposition in fact would eventually allow for the practical use of renewable and biomass derived energy, and would further permit, if conducted on a sufficient scale, the forestalling of the mass extinctions that Ward is vaporing about. You will perhaps have heard of ocean thermal energy conversion (OTEC), a process that takes advantage of temperature differentials between hot surface water and cool water from the deep ocean. The eradication of traditional oceanic circulation would produce far more locations where such a scheme would be viable, and the surface water would reach higher temperatures, greatly increasing the efficiency of power generation, converting tropical oceans into giant solar panels. As for H2S generation, this would not be an enormous problem right away (at least on the scale under discussion) in most areas. While Ward mentions the trouble caused by H2S off the Namibian and Chilean coasts, the trouble is caused by immense amounts of LOCAL H2S production COMBINED with, and dependent for their existence upon, strong local coastal upwellings of cold, nutrient rich water from the deep ocean. The H2S is produced by unusual concentrations of decomposing algae, and the algae is dependent on the nutrient-rich, but oxygen-poor water of the coastal upwellings. If the ocean currents were more or less turned off, the H2S would be produced less swiftly, and would either stay trapped in a cold layer of water near the bottom, or would disperse slowly enough not to cause great and notable trouble. Note as well that even if the ocean contained a great deal of H2S, it would naturally be concentrated and contained in deep oceanic water layers for thousands of years, and would not generally poison sea life nearer the surface. Ward is suggesting that the gasses trapped in the lower levels of the ocean would eventually come bubbling up in a surge, and this would indeed happen if enough time passed and IF nothing was done about it but this need not be the case. There are several gasses produced by anaerobic decomposition, most notably methane, the main constituent of natural gas. This methane, if at reasonable concentrations, may readily be extracted from deep saturated waters and be used for fuel. Lake Kivu in Africa, on the border of Rwanda and the DRC (Congo) is one of several unusually deep African lakes that have deep layers saturated with gas. This gas is a safety hazard, as large disturbances, like landslides falling into the lake, can send a wave of suffocating gas crashing into nearby towns, but it is fairly simple to relieve the dangerous pressure gradually, because after a bit of initial pumping to get the reaction started, the gas-saturated water will come bubbling out of a pipe stuck in the deep water like soda from a shaken bottle. In most of these deep lakes, the gas in the deep layers is relatively useless CO2 (although it would provide opportunities for greenhouse farming) produced by local volcanic systems (the EARTH is putting out a lot of CO2, not just people), but in lake Kivu, there are a lot of useful gasses generated by anaerobic decomposition that can serve as fuel, and which are now in the process of being developed as a major regional power source. Even H2S is quite flammable, and the process used to convert it to elemental sulfur also produces considerable amounts of steam useful for power generation, not to mention the industrially useful sulphur (sulphuric acid is in fact, the most important industrial chemical on earth). An OTEC plant that exploits ocean heat for power pumps an enormous amount of water, and is ideally suited for the extraction of useful industrial and fuel gasses from the water of the deep ocean. In this way, not only heat energy from ocean water, but also the energy captured by oceanic photosynthesis would become usable for human needs. Those poor mammal-like-reptiles! They just didn't know how to exploit a natural solar-panel-biogas-generator! Teeth and claws may have low carbon emissions, but 'mother-earth' will get you anyway! Daniel ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Gary Gene Ford <******@shaw.ca> *To:* Daniel Bowen <************@gmail.com> *Cc:* Jentje Goslinga <***********@shaw.ca>; Mark Thornally <**********@yahoo.com>; STAN <******@rogers.com>; bruce maccabee <******@compuserve.com>; Stephen Goodfellow <*******@goodfelloweb.com>; Allan Safarik <*****@sasktel.net>; Jess Walls <*****@suddenlink.net>; Joe <********@hispeed.ch>; brad smith <*****@thule.org>; Hsing LEE <*******@shaw.ca>; Greg Lunt J.D. <********@yahoo.com>; Ken Deibert <*****@cal.net>; ********@yahoo.com.ar <********@yahoo.com.ar>; Stephen Pierce <*******@piercesupport.com> *Sent:* Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:22 PM *Subject:* Re: Global warming theory breaks wind? Daniel, that guy (see below) knows so much about H2S and human health - what is his professed field? - I sincerely hope he's NOT a Physiologist! But it's simply wild speculation: his assertion that 1000 ppm (0.1%) CO2 in the air would result in stopping Ocean currents. Likewise ... his bold assertion that Arctic Ice MUST vanish with such levels of CO2. After all, the Earth's Stratosphere is still likely to remain considerably colder than the Troposphere, even if the temperature of the latter were to rise a few degrees ... While Warmer Seas and Near-Sea Air could bring about much more evaporation and air-transport of moisture, leading to increased precipitation, once such increased airborne moisture reaches into the colder stratosphere, with the Atmosphere thus so loaded with more Oceanic Evaporation, moisture will become dumped elsewhere ... on Land and Sea, the Land Portion being liquid forming into Swollen Creeks and Rivers, moving back to the Ocean, but also absorbed into formerly drier soils and incorporated into a possible expansion of the Land's Vegetation, aided by Increased CO2 as well as by Increased Water - BOTH, given Sunshine, PRIME INPUTS to Green Plant Photosynthesis. Did I forget SWOLLEN LAKES?! If Ground Water, Vegetable Flesh, Creeks, Rivers, Lakes should increase, from increased precipitation - NOTE: The Seas are about 70% of the Surface of the Earth, albeit some, as with land, are indeed in colder regions - but at least half of the Oceans in WARMER Parts of the Globe? - THEN the Ocean Level Might Even FALL, especially should enough extra Precipitation were to fall in Our Currently Very Extensive in Land Area, High Northernly Latitudes - Russia/Canada/Alaska/Greenland,/Scandinavia - as Snow in the DARK Northern Winter, and if more fell than could be conveniently shed in the Warm Season ... shades of Milankovitch Cycles! Has Anyone ELSE read George Gamow's BIOGRAPHY OF THE EARTH? After all, it is LACK OF OVERHEAD SUNSHINE which makes the Arctic Cold in WINTER, and NOT AT ALL *some* *deficiency* of Airborne CO2"! Ocean currents are driven by a variety of "mechanisms", including EARTH SPIN-Solar/Lunar Tidal Interactions of Oceanic Water with asymmetrical Oceanic Canyons, Submarine Mountain Chains and Continental Margins, only loosely linked with Water Temperature or CO2 content. Ocean Currents are ALSO driven by Winds. Now, it is TRUE that on Ocean-less VENUS, there is little variation in Planetary Temperature, but there ARE Immense Mass-Flows of its outrageously dense (as compared to Earth's) Atmosphere: it has been said that the force of moving Venusian Air scouring past its rocky surface may generate wind-forces a strong as Earth Winds at an order of magnitude-faster Earth winds. Wind Resistance (Bernoulli Stagnation) Pressure being One-half Mass-Density times Velocity SQUARED, you know, don't you? - Err, DOES Frog Presser WARG? Yes, VENUS has NO Ocean Currents, but then Venus has NO Ocean to have currents it yet has surface Winds which appear to drive relentlessly, if winding-ly, from one pole of its very lazy spin to the other, flowing back again at a higher altitude, approximating Ocean Currents in their mass transport ... WHO KNOWS how more forceful such winds could be if Venus had an Earth-style, 24 hour Spin Rotation Period, instead of its now slow, slow rotation over its LAZY 240 or so Earth Day Long VENUSIAN Day?! I sincerely HOPE the Good Frog Presser is NOT trying for a CO2-Effects Comparison between Earth and VENUS , as ... You see, Gross Molecular Mass of Venusian Air, dominated by its 9O% CO2 Content, spiced with high molecular mass H2SO4, greatly exceeds Earth's, and with a pressure of 90 or more Bars, Venusian Air contains many orders of magnitude more CO2 molecules than does Earth's merely 1 BAR (at Sea Level Land Surface on average), less than 0.04% CO2 fraction, Atmosphere. Finding Climate Similarities between Slow Spinning, Ocean less Venus, and Fast Spinning, Ocean Dominated Earth, with Venus Receiving just about TWICE the Warming Solar Radiant Power Density influx as does Our Earth, seems a JOKE at Best, in my humble opinion. I Do HOPE The Elect Frog Presser is NOT arguing from NAuSA Venereal Global Runaway CO2 Greenhouse Numerical Simulations of the Computer/Numerical Methods WEAK 1970s and 1980s! I would like to know how WARG gets off saying that there would be NO Ocean Currents in a Slightly Warmer Earth with our current Continent and Ocean configuration; which is very DIFFERENT than during the Permian Catastrophe! Is he a Physical Oceanographer? - Is it Hubris of Authority? PERHAPS AN INFALLIBLE HOLY CATHOLIC POPE?! Yes, Winds are also involved in driving Ocean Currents, as are such mechanisms as falling buoyancy of increased density, by salinity increased Tropical Surface Water, when much water becomes evaporated to the Air... The mass-density, hence "buoyancy" of Ocean Water depends NOT ONLY only upon its Temperature, but very much also upon its Salinity, which can be substantially increased at its surface by enhanced Tropical Evaporation on Sunny Days. If Ocean Currents were to Cease, than what besides very increased Atmospheric WINDS would be left to transport the Abundant HEAT of the Tropics to less Solar Blessed on average, Higher Latitudes? SHOULD WINDS were to have to pick up the TASK, wouldn't they need INCREASE, and INCREASING, then move Ocean Water, too?! NO OCEAN CURRENTS?! What! - Are the OCEANS to BOIL Away, Instead?! It is a sobering and scary image, but OTHER Experts, Solar Astrophysicists as a matter of fact, do assure us that the Earth will one day be baked by a Helium Burning SUN ... but do not worry! ... all higher life forms may have long before died due to the Earth's Geologically Relentless burial of Carbon Compounds, leaving just a Carbon Starved and Barren Earth, right on schedule by the Alien Planetary Mining plan ... "What a RELIEF, to be RID of that STINKING GREEN Overburden!" perhaps some of them may say? ARE MANY OF "THE GREENS" Really B-R-O-W-N ?! Or would they ACTUALLY LIKE much more H2S on Earth to please their H2S breathing Alien Masters? ----------------------------------------- H2S Note: Every year in Alberta, people die from H2S inhalation - its present in most Natural Gas here and in most Petroleum Solution Gas. H2S is extremely dangerous at just 50 ppm, while at 200 ppm unconsciousness comes within seconds. Dr. Goslinga has taken a special course in H2S precautions and safe rescue (air tank and face mask required) - perhaps he will correct me if I am in error about H2S? --------------------------------------------------- "The REAL WORLD is Far More Complex Than THEY (want You to) Think!" - GGFord Gary Gene Ford - swimp@shaw.ca ggford@shaw.ca http://pweb.netcom.com/~mthorn/magiboom.htm http://pw1.netcom.com/~mthorn/divinepr.htm
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Daniel Bowen wrote: WIRED www.wired.com Science : Planet Earth Hydrogen Sulfide May Kill Us, Bring Us Back to Life By Kim Zetter -- Email 03.03.08| 3:30 PM www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/03/peter_ward_qa Peter Ward tells the crowd at TED 2008 about the perils of hydrogen sulfide, which he says wiped out 90 percent of Earth's species during the Permian period. Courtesy Ted Conferences TED 2008 Coverage Conference to Tackle Origins of Evil, Theories of Everything More TED News on Wired's Epicenter Blog Millions of years before the dinosaurs were apparently killed by an asteroid hitting our planet, the Earth experienced another mass extinction that was far more devastating. The cause for that, paleontologist Peter Ward says, was actually homegrown: Hydrogen sulfide in the oceans and atmosphere turned the sky green and choked off oxygen for plants, animals and marine life. Ward, who teaches at the University of Washington and who spoke at the Technology, Entertainment and Design (TED) conference last week, says that global warming caused by humans could reproduce the same hydrogen sulfide gas conditions that killed more than 90 percent of life during the Permian period, when the extinction occurred. And we might just do it faster than nature did. Ward, who published a book about the extinctions last year called Under a Green Sky, is involved in a project with Arizona State University to designa $60 million atmosphere chamber to reproduce the Earth's atmospheric conditions from the Permian period--as well as any other period they want -- and recreate the die-off with plants grown in the chambers. The aim is to see what kinds of signs are left behind so they can then look for them in nature today and see what they tell us about evolution. Although hydrogen sulfide has the potential to be a mass murderer, researchers have recently discovered a possible medical use for the deadly gas that could, ironically, also save millions of lives. Tests have only been conducted on mice, but so far they show that hydrogen sulfide injected directly into the heart of mice suffering a medically induced heart attack puts their bodies into a state of suspended animation and results in the heart cells sustaining less damage than those of mice who did not receive the injections. Ward spoke with Wired.com about the possible risks and benefits of hydrogen sulfide and how gas masks may be in our future. *Wired:* Explain how the Permian mass extinction occurred. *Peter Ward:* Step one is, there's an enormous release of flood basalts coming out of cracks in the earth, and huge amounts of magma from the deep Earth comes out. These things go on for millions of years, and the volume of lava is extraordinary. It may have covered an area the size of the continental U.S. Now, the lava doesn't kill much, except the poor, stupid animals that were crazy enough to be around there. But as the lava comes out, carbon dioxide bubbles out with it and a lot of carbon dioxide goes into the atmosphere to the point that we estimate the carbon dioxide levels hit 3,000 parts per million. [Current carbon dioxide levels are about 380 parts per million.] This causes the oceans and the planet to warm, and once you do that you stop ocean currents. Once you stop currents, you lose oxygen in the ocean, because it's circulation that keeps the ocean oxygenated. This allows a type of bacteria to take over that creates hydrogen sulfide (H2S). Animal life cannot live in water that has a lot of hydrogen sulfide in it. When you have concentrations of greater than 80 ppm of hydrogen sulfide, or you get up to 200 ppm, which is easily done, you'll kill every animal [in the ocean]. Eventually so much hydrogen sulfide leaks into the atmosphere that it kills animals and plants. *Wired:* How many land species were there at the time and how many were killed? *Ward:* On land you had hundreds of species of mammal-like reptiles -- the first stage of mammals. It was over 90 percent extinction, not just of land animals but of ocean animals and plants. Only 50 percent [of species] in the asteroid-dinosaur stage died. So this was way, way worse. *Wired:* How long did it take for this to happen? *Ward:* It occurred slowly, over thousands of years. We still do not know precisely how long. *Wired:* It's believed that hydrogen sulfide was the cause of at least two other mass extinctions, right? *Ward:* Actually, I think it's up to 12. Every mass extinction except the dinosaur extinction seems to have been caused by this. It's all about when the Earth decides to spit out these big burps of magma that come to the surface. But a big mass extinction from global warming has not happened in 100 million years. *Wired:* We place the blame for our current global warming situation on rising CO2 levels created by man. But the previous episodes of global warming and mass extinctions were entirely the cause of nature. It seems as if we could do everything in our power to reduce man-made global warming and still face global warming and mass extinction from nature if we have flood basalts at the level that occurred during the Permian period. *Ward:* Not really -- those past episodes were from very rare flood basalts. There may not be another of these, as the Earth is cooling as it ages. But we've had these mass extinctions [from hydrogen sulfide] when carbon dioxide has hit 1,000 ppm. We have not hit that [level] for 100 million years. But we are currently at 380 ppm -- and climbing rapidly at 2 ppm a year and accelerating -- and this is the highest CO2 I think in the last 40 million years. The only time [these extinctions] ever happened in the past is when these big flood basalts happened. But now /we're/ making it happen far faster than the flood basalts ever did. This is a unique event in the history of the planet. *Wired:* What would life look like as the Earth's oxygen is slowly choked off by hydrogen sulfide and how long would it take? *Ward:* This really is a long way off. This is something that's going to take thousands of years. The oceans take a long time to change from oxygenated to a place where there is no oxygen on the bottom. But once it starts, you can't stop it. I think sea-level rise is a more imminent danger. The thing that we have to do is, we have to save the ice caps, because if the ice caps go, (the hydrogen sulfide scenario) is the inevitable next step. One thousand ppm (of CO2) is all it would take to get rid of all the ice caps on the planet. We'll be at 1,000 in 200 years or less. Which means good-bye ice caps on planet Earth, which means 240 feet of sea level, which means good-bye San Francisco, Seattle, New York and on and on. But if losing the ice caps makes us uncomfortable [because of rising water], the hydrogen sulfide is going to make us extinct. In 500 years, I can see a world where everyone will be wearing gas masks. Those that [have] them will live; those that don't will die. We humans are here for the long haul, and if we do not stop heating our atmosphere, we will suffer a very nasty fate. *Wired:* Are there any areas on the planet where we can see the beginnings of something like this already happening with hydrogen sulfide? *Ward:* Right now off the coast of Namibia there is hydrogen sulfide coming out. Fisheries went in and killed off all the anchovies and sardines. Then the plankton comes up, and there are no fish to eat them and they go to the bottom and rot. That rotting produces hydrogen sulfide and it rises to the surface and is causing all kinds of havoc. Where I live [Washington state] we have hydrogen sulfide hot spots coming from the old logging camps. All the wood waste that was buried in the last two or three centuries is now rotting to the point that well-diggers have to [carry] a gas mask because if they puncture one of these hydrogen sulfide bubbles it will kill them. *Wired:* Recently researchers have posited that there's also a possible medical benefit from controlled use of hydrogen sulfide. You've called it the next and best boon for medical science. What are the practical applications of the gas? *Ward:* With H2S, a mammal can be turned functionally into a cold-blooded animal and cooled far lower than could otherwise take place [to slow down the progression of injuries]. This could save a lot of lives [in a medical crisis]. The Buffalo (Bills) football player (Kevin Everett) who had the accident -- the reason they were able to do the neurological stuff they did on him was because they were able to cool him [until they could treat him]. In a situation like that, you're buying time. The critical part of a heart attack, it has been shown over and over, is that if you can get them to a hospital fast enough they will survive. So let's say you're in Iraq and they've just blown your leg off with an IED. You're bleeding out. You're dead. Put the hydrogen sulfide in -- you bleed out, but you're slowed down. You get to the hospital, and they fill you back up again with blood again. Each cell (already naturally) produces a minute amount of hydrogen sulfide, and it causes that cell to reduce activity. So when you're in a crisis, it's as if [the cells and body] come to the conclusion, "I'm in a crisis; I can't be expending energy, I better go into reserve [mode]." So [if you give someone hydrogen sulfide] to replace the oxygen, theoretically, instead of that lack of oxygen killing you, your metabolism shuts down so low, your need for oxygen reduces immensely. We're talking about a situation where your heart only needs to beat once a minute or so. What we're really talking about is not suspended animation; we're talking about [medically-induced] death. And then we bring you back. We're going to artificially kill people so it buys us time, and then bring them back alive. *Wired:* How long could you stay in that state? *Ward:* Four to six hours in mice, and they come back perfectly the same. The trouble is ... we don't know what's going on in the brain cells. And this is the biggest issue with this. How much brain death will there be? There will be some. So here's the ethical dilemma: If I get in a car wreck, my wife who loves me dearly, would she rather have me back as a vegetable, a half-Peter? What if I come back without any memory of her whatsoever? Or what if I can't write? Is it better to have me like that ... or is it better to just let me be dead? Going in, you don't know what you're going to get coming out. *Wired:* So why would you say this is the greatest boon to medicine? *Ward:* Because for some people, they will come out fine. That woman who had the stroke (Jill Bolte Taylor, who spoke at TED last week), she rebuilt everything. Brains rebuild. Yes, you have all this damage, but there's no reason you can't rebuild right around it to get exactly where you were [before the accident]. But we'll be able to save a hell of a lot of lives. ... © 2008 WIRED www.wired.com
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