From: David@longley.demon.co.uk (David Longley)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 96 11:01:44 GMT
Organization: Relational Technology

In article  jqb@netcom.com "Jim Balter" writes:

> In article <846153092snz@longley.demon.co.uk>,
> David Longley  wrote:
> >In article  jqb@netcom.com "Jim Balter" writes:
> >
> >> In article <846083674snz@longley.demon.co.uk>,
> >> David Longley  wrote:
> >> >This is all false. 
> >> 
> >> == "I disagree".  See previous comments by Longley on this "structure".
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >This reflects a somewhat idiosyncratic conception of truth.
> >
> >To  say something or set of things is false is NOT equivalent  to 
> >saying  one  disagrees  with it or them. If JB says  the  sun  is 
> >1000000  miles  from  the  earth,  and  I  say  it  is  (roughly) 
> >93,000,000 miles, it does not come down to a disagreement between 
> >DL  and  JB,  but one between the statements  and  the  empirical 
> >facts. 
> 
> What accounts for such intellectual failure?  Neither of the hypothetical
> statements by JB or DL above resemble "This is false".  What empirical claim
> is contained in the statement "This is false"?  "This is false" is either just
> behavior or just an expression of belief, depending upon your
> behavioral/cognitive stance, *not* an empirical statement about the
> proposition, which is exactly the complaint Longley voiced against Rickert's
> "Agreed".  Longley of all people should recognize this, if it weren't that he
> takes *his opinion* of what is true or false as being what is true or false.
> 
> >In my note to Rickert, I am asking for the empirical facts.
> 
> The exact same question can be asked of either "I disagree" or "That is
> false".  They *mean* the same thing, despite attempts by those who take their
> opinions as absolutes to factor the speaker out of the latter.
> -- 
> 
> 
My point is clear enough.

All of these discussions are, at root, a fundamental disagreement 
on  the  nature  of "meanings" and whether  one  *can*  say  that 
two statements "*mean* the same thing". Even if we accept meaning 
as usage, it comes down to how and when (if ever) two  behaviours 
can be said to be "the same"... 

-- 
David Longley